MGC and H.264

[sdevoy]

Hi all,
I have several VSX 7000 all happily talking H.264 point to point. A conference launched from the MGC25, only displays H.263 in the diagnostics of the endpoint.

What does the MGC support, is this H.263*?


Cheers
Steve B)

[Gary Miyakawa]

Actually, we have to ask a few questions...

1. What version of software are you running on the MGC and VSX ?

2. What speed were you trying to place the call ?

3. What were the parameters of the bridge reservation ?

I know that MGC Version 6.00.107 does support H.264* calls when in Voice Activated mode and the call speeds are <= 384kb. There are certainly other parameters that can effect this but I can't think of them right off the top of my head.

Tell us more and we'll try to help out !

Gary Miyakawa

[sdevoy]

Gary,

Thanks for the response.
The call are IP @192; MGC version 6.00.65. Conferences are CP 4sites.

Is it the case H.264 only works in VA conferences?

Many Thanks

Steve

[Gary Miyakawa]

Bingo,

Change it to VA and you should get H.264. If you think this is a problem, please submit a "bug" to Polycom stating so. (in my opinion it is a bug) .

Gary Miyakawa

[sdevoy]

Gary,

Too right, how many people are going down this route!

Are you sure? I agree major bug for customers paying large sums.....

The new Tandberg may shake the tree.

Cheers

Steve :D

[robertk]

I would guess that the processing power isn't there to have CP using H264. I wouldn't call it a bug. :)

//Robert

[sdevoy]

Robert,
Agreed to a technical bug but a major product management one. Especially having announced the MGC-25.....

Cheers
Steve :D

[Gary Miyakawa]

Originally posted by robertk@Jun 17 2004, 12:46 PM
I would guess that the processing power isn't there to have CP using H264. I wouldn't call it a bug. :)

//Robert
In speaking to Tier 3, they said it certainly can be done, hp is not a problem. It's just "doing it"...

Gary Miyakawa

[Samoht]

Just tested a voice switched conference set to H.264* and Siren14 on an MGC25. The call from a VSX3000 connects at H.264 and Siren 14 up to speeds of 384k. So, you should not see an issue with this, when running your multipoint session in voice switched mode.

H.264 in CP mode is not an issue of HW limitations. The MGCs are using Equator chips with the new Video+ cards and are not relying on the old Trimedia chips anymore. This gives the MCU much more power, which can be used for additional functions and features.

Referring to Gary, it is just a question of time ;)

[carolyn]

i am a little confused here...I have been reading throught eh MGC docs and it does mention handling h264...i have just been upgrading my end points to utulize this feature...however, many of our mps are cp....i have not yet tested it for myself. I am unclear as to whether it really does work in cp mode..at 384k (our standard)..and is there any difference in whether the end oint is IP or ISDN?...I have not seen any reliable info info on this capability (mixing IP/ISDN)...

[sdevoy]

My issue here is that, regardless of the upgraded technology now provided by Polycom, the conferences only support H.264 in voice ativated conferences. Most VC solutions rely on CP as a main criteria.
Can anyone confirm the status of other MCU's on the market?

[Sean Lessman]

The MGCs are using Equator chips with the new Video+ cards and are not relying on the old Trimedia chips anymore. This gives the MCU much more power, which can be used for additional functions and features.

I believe the Accord went from 8x8 VCP to Equator for media processing bypassing Tri-Media altogether.

Sean

[Sean Lessman]

Can anyone confirm the status of other MCU's on the market?

Hi Everyone,

As far as the major players on the market, here is a breakdown:

Polycom MGC supports H.264* (not ITU standard) today. The VSX product line also only supports H.264* today. The Viewstation FX/EX/VS4000 and iPower products support H.264 (ITU standard) and H.264* (Polycom). The Accord also supports H.264* in Voice Switched today. If you have a conference with H.264* specified, all Polycom endpoints will do H.264*. If you have multivendor products in the conference, they will not get H.264.

The RADVision MCUs do support H.264 (ITU standard) in Voice Switched Mode. This MCU will work with endpoints that support H.264.

The TANDBERG MCU (and MPS) supports H.264 (ITU standard) in Voice Switched mode and Continuous Presence.

As far as Endpoints go:

Polycom FX/EX/VS4000 , iPower 900, 9000, 680 (latest version 6 software released this past spring)
Polycom VSX 7000, 3000, 500 are H.264* (Polycom only)

Sony PCS-1, PCS-11 as of last fall

France Telecom (eConf for RADVision) as of last summer

TANDBERG (all codecs running E software) as of July 14, 2003

VCON HD3000, HD5000 -- I know its been announced, however I have not been able to test with it.

I am sure I forgot a few others, please feel free to add to the list.

All the best,

Sean
TANDBERG

[Kevin]

The Codian MCU4200 supports H264, moreover, when using H264 there is no loss of functionality:

1. No Loss of port count,
2. No loss of continuous presence modes,
3. H264 can be used in conferences that have other codec at other bitrates etc.
4. The upgrade to H264 software is free.

Kevin

[sdevoy]

Hi all,
Polycom are promising Q3 this year for the update

Steve

[Sean Lessman]

The Codian MCU4200 supports H264, moreover, when using H264 there is no loss of functionality:

1. No Loss of port count,
2. No loss of continuous presence modes,
3. H264 can be used in conferences that have other codec at other bitrates etc.
4. The upgrade to H264 software is free.

Kevin

According to Codian's website:

http://www.codian.com/products.htm

Video provisioning summary

Connection type Video Ports Consumed

CIF H.261 or H.263 (any bandwidth) 1

CIF to MCU / 4CIF from MCU 2

4CIF to and from MCU 3

Streaming a conference 1

If using 4CIF reduces the port count by 2/3. I would imagine H.264 being computationally and memory intensive would also reduce the port count. I haven't seen H.264 on the Codian in action so its a best guess at this point. If you have different information, I would like to better understand.

Sean

[Kevin]

If using 4CIF reduces the port count by 2/3. I would imagine H.264 being computationally and memory intensive would also reduce the port count. I haven't seen H.264 on the Codian in action so its a best guess at this point. If you have different information, I would like to better understand.


Sean,
As the Codian 4200 series of MCUs has beed designed with the latest DSP technology and as all video codecs are devleoped in house, the Codian MCUs are able to provide full H.264 support on all video H.323 ports (20, 40 or 80 depending on the model) without loss of functionality. :D

Therefore, different codecs (including H.264) and different bitrates can still be supported in the same conferece. Furthermore this does not effect the ability for the MCU to ALSO provide the same number of Voice (VoIP) ports at the same time :D , not to mention up to 100, 200 or 400 unicast streaming ports (unlimited multicast) :D.

If you have any further questions feel free to email or pm me.

[zinman]

From what I understand, the MGC will do CP/H.264 if you have the newest video cards. These cards also support "conference on a chip" which allows you to have up to 10 CP's going with no limit to the number of sites, provided all sites are the H.323, same algorithm and same speed (384K or less).

[tdstew]

Sean...Is this information still current as far as you're aware? Thank you!!

Hi Everyone,

As far as the major players on the market, here is a breakdown:

Polycom MGC supports H.264* (not ITU standard) today. The VSX product line also only supports H.264* today. The Viewstation FX/EX/VS4000 and iPower products support H.264 (ITU standard) and H.264* (Polycom). The Accord also supports H.264* in Voice Switched today. If you have a conference with H.264* specified, all Polycom endpoints will do H.264*. If you have multivendor products in the conference, they will not get H.264.

The RADVision MCUs do support H.264 (ITU standard) in Voice Switched Mode. This MCU will work with endpoints that support H.264.

The TANDBERG MCU (and MPS) supports H.264 (ITU standard) in Voice Switched mode and Continuous Presence.

As far as Endpoints go:

Polycom FX/EX/VS4000 , iPower 900, 9000, 680 (latest version 6 software released this past spring)
Polycom VSX 7000, 3000, 500 are H.264* (Polycom only)

Sony PCS-1, PCS-11 as of last fall

France Telecom (eConf for RADVision) as of last summer

TANDBERG (all codecs running E software) as of July 14, 2003

VCON HD3000, HD5000 -- I know its been announced, however I have not been able to test with it.

I am sure I forgot a few others, please feel free to add to the list.

All the best,

Sean
TANDBERG

[Glen Sykes]

There have been no announcements of software releases that would change what Sean has stated as above. Although as you know things can change dramatically in even a single version of software.

I'm waiting for Polycoms riposte to Tandbergs MXP announcement with baited breath!

[Sean Lessman]

There have been no announcements of software releases that would change what Sean has stated as above. Although as you know things can change dramatically in even a single version of software.

I'm waiting for Polycoms riposte to Tandbergs MXP announcement with baited breath!

Hi,

In July, Polycom released ver 7 of the VSX product line. H.264 is interoperable with the other vendors now. However, the Accord is still H.264* (Polycom proprietary).

Sean

[Rick McAllister]

From what I hear, Polycom will be including transcoding capabilities for h.264 in MCU Software release 7.0. This should fix the problems that you are currently experiencing.

[marc55]

This may be a little off topic but here goes: We are having difficulty conecting to a Polycom IPower 9000 codec with our Polycom VS 4000 and Polycom MGC 100 with version 4.6. Curiously, we can connect with a Tandberg 1000 and 2500 with B3 software. From all appearences, everything at the Ipower end has been disabled since we thought there may be compatability issues with incription or H.264. Any ideas would be appreciated?