Cheapest form of Videoconferencing?

[George]

Obviously if you're in this forum you're looking for a cheap way to send and receive video and audio.

What methods does everyone suggest, other than the obvious Netmeeting and even MSN messenger both of which I'm not to sure are even secure enough for this medium and may even ADD security problems to your network.

[signalgrunt]

George

Why do you say they're not secure enough to use as real video solutions? If you secure your network you shouldn't have to worry about it. It's not the software, it's good network admins. I personally use netmeeting all the time to talk to my family when I'm away from home and I love it. Yeah it's cheap, but unsecure I disagree.

[Gary Miyakawa]

Cheapest "good" videoconferencing ? Hmm....
Open Source H.323 Client ($0)
Logitech Quick Cam Messenger (www.ecost.com - $39.99 with $10.00 rebate from Logitech, includes microphone).
Some speakers.

That's about the cheapest I can find...

Gary Miyakawa

[George]

Opensource H.323 client? Where?

Also what if say, a church wanted to do distance learning bible class with the teacher teaching the class form a few states away. Little to no budget, but need good enough quality to effectively teach the class in a 2-way environment. What would you recommend?

Hard enough for ya?

[Entropy3XD]

VCON's vPoint software ($50 US, I think) or Radvision's ECONF ($80 US, made by France Telecom). Throw in a web cam and you are off and running. Both support gatekeepers (which has been my issue with open source clients) and also T.120. Netmeeting is an OK fallback, but my issue with netmeeting is that I can not select a specific bandwidth (i.e., 128k or 384k). There are no issues as far as security.

[Entropy3XD]

Originally posted by George@Apr 30 2004, 03:18 PM
Opensource H.323 client? Where?

Also what if say, a church wanted to do distance learning bible class with the teacher teaching the class form a few states away. Little to no budget, but need good enough quality to effectively teach the class in a 2-way environment. What would you recommend?

Hard enough for ya?
George,

What do they have as far as bandwidth at the churches? Upload/Download? DSL/Cable?

Where are they looking to display the video and audio? Computer, TV, Projector?

How many people in the classes?

[ITV-U]

Polycom just released a PVX software that allows H.323, and more. It retails for around $150. Go to Polycom's website and download the trial version. You can adjust speed, use gatekeepers, etc.

I have been trying it and so far it works pretty decent with the three different cameras that I tried it with. The only issue that I have so far is it is requires a pretty late computer to handle.

[Gannan]

ITV-U,

Could you tell me at what link you downloaded the trial? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks,

[Kevin]

Try Here:

http://www.polycomconnect.com/Apps/DCS/mcp?q=STUW7dTFz1LPsR

[scottmerrick]

I led a well-attended workshop at this past summer's National Educational Computing Conference, NECC, in New Orleans, and I have a blog that's still around which provides myriad resources for desktop computer interactive videoconferencing. See http://scottnecc2004.blogspot.com for all of 'em.

I highly recommend iVisit, Sightspeed, and even Yahoo!Messenger, though the last is increasingly becoming bloated with more cutesy stuff as time goes by.

Good luck,
Scott

[MegaMega]

Obviously if you're in this forum you're looking for a cheap way to send and receive video and audio.

What methods does everyone suggest, other than the obvious Netmeeting and even MSN messenger both of which I'm not to sure are even secure enough for this medium and may even ADD security problems to your network.

http://www.megameeting.com/PersTrial.jsp

Affordable, browser based and RTMP secure.

[lkeyes]

You should really check out the D-Link I2Eye units. About $189.00 or less, they work with a television (no computer required). They work well with 256Kb available in each direction for point to point connections (typically available through consumer level DSL or cable connections).

Good for one on ones and small groups (2 or 3 at each end). A wider angle lens is available if you need to see more.

This solves the endpoint problem. For low-cost multipoint, you might consider the Polycom Viewstation EX series, which can do 3 simultaneous connections (plus itself). About $7,000. You'll also need some IP bandwidth at the head end; probably more than is available with a typical cable connection. (a T-1 at least).

I'd be interested in other ideas...?

--- L

[jahlberg]

I am also looking for a cost effective solution for a school who does not have a lot of dough, but wants the quality of a Polycom VSX7000 but at a lower price point if possible. My thought is to use the Polycom PVX software but use a "real" PTZ camera like the ones used on the set top units.

Each of the teachers at this school has a tablet PC so the software could be loaded on it, plug the tablet into a projector so the room can see the other side, plug the camera into the tablet (how though? s-video input? Will the PVX software recognize it? Is there a USB converter device to do this?), and use a bluetooth microphone to pass around for the students to talk to the other side. In essence you could get the same quality video/audio experience for lass than half the cost of a Polycom VSX7000.

Any thoughts or other ides on a setup like this?

[Entropy3XD]

I am also looking for a cost effective solution for a school who does not have a lot of dough, but wants the quality of a Polycom VSX7000 but at a lower price point if possible. My thought is to use the Polycom PVX software but use a "real" PTZ camera like the ones used on the set top units.

Each of the teachers at this school has a tablet PC so the software could be loaded on it, plug the tablet into a projector so the room can see the other side, plug the camera into the tablet (how though? s-video input? Will the PVX software recognize it? Is there a USB converter device to do this?), and use a bluetooth microphone to pass around for the students to talk to the other side. In essence you could get the same quality video/audio experience for lass than half the cost of a Polycom VSX7000.

Any thoughts or other ides on a setup like this?

For the video feed you would need a TV input card. I use a USB device from Hauppauge. I haven't checked the Hauppauge's compatibility with PVX however. PTZ control would have to be handled with a COM cable from the PC to the camera. Third party applications may be needed for PTZ control however. I use a third party app to control a Sony D-30 with my PC at home. Perhaps someone here knows if the PVX software can utilize a COM port on the PC for camera control. I am not sure which tablets you are using but take into consideration the processing power required from the PC. Glad to hear you are using tablets in the classroom. I am a heavy Tablet PC user myself.

[jahlberg]

Thanks for the input Entropy3XD. I actualy have a Hauppauge device on PC with a Polycom 128 plugged in. It works pretty well. I also have the PVX software on my laptop (I use a cheap logitech cam that works pretty darn well). I'll try the PVX software with the Hauppauge device and see what happens.

Some of the camera's I've seen, I think, can be controlled directly using a remote (and they have a s-video connection built in) so as long as the camera can plug into the tablet and be recognized by the PVX software, this might work.

They are brand new tablets and should have enough umph for the PVX software. I'll test this out next week though.

[Entropy3XD]

Thanks for reminding me about the remote, I always forget many cameras come with them. Keep us informed of your experiment. I would really like to know if this works.

[jahlberg]

Amazingly it looks like this will work. I now have a Hauppauge device plug into a computer (could be a tablet PC) and a Polycom 128 (could be any PTZ camera with s-video) into the other side of the Hauppauge device. The PVX software sees the Polycom 128 as it's camera. I've already got bluetooth headsets working on laptops for voip, so doing that is not a big deal.

Not the cleanest solution, but in essence it is pretty straightforward to do and the hardware/software investment would be about $1,400 or less and it gives you VERY high quality video/audio just like a set top unit.

A simple small usb/s-video device like this is only $30 http://startech.com/ststore/itemdetail.cfm?ProductID=USBVIDEOCAP&mt=

Elmo PTZ camera http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=ELPTC100S&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=250457

Recap:
Polycom PVX 8.0 - $150
PTZ camera ELMO PTC-100S- $900
Startech USB/s-video - $30
Bluetooth microphone or standard wired microphone - $50
External speakers - $50
All of the above plugged into an exisiting laptop or tablet PC which is plugged into an exisiting projector. About $1,200 for videoconferencing in the classroom.


This may actually work in my environment since the classroom has a cieling mounted projector and the teacher has a tablet docking station with the projector and speakers plugged in to it already. Plugging in the camera and microphone is about all you would need to do and you are ready to go. To make things easier just mount the camera in the front of the room and plug it into the docking station full time.

I may need to get a demo camera and check this out....

[Entropy3XD]

Very cool! I'm happy to hear it is coming together.

[Gary Miyakawa]

Neat solution ! Have you figured out how to control the PTZ camera from the far end ?

Gary Miyakawa

[jahlberg]

No far end camera control with this solution. In my envirnment it is not needed. I would think that someone would come out with a Polycom via video type camera (higher end PTZ camera that is usb) that can just work with the softwarses out there, giving you far end camera control and lots of benefits of the set top video systems.

There seems to be a bunch of low end solutions (PVX and a logitech usb cam) and then high end solutions (Sony PCS1) but nothing in the middle yet. There may be vendors that make a set top device for less than the Polycom, Sony, Tandberg, etc. but I dont know of anything with the $1,000 or so price point.

[tom9933]

The V500 is around that price point, but it uses a fixed camera. Your next best bet from Polycom would be the 5000 with soft ptz (i.e. the image shifts by using an oversized sensor) but I believe its well beyond the 1k mark. I think you will find that most decent ptz cameras cost almost 1k so a codec with a ptz camera for that price may be a bit difficult. BTW Logitech also makes a usb camera the moves (called the Quickcam Orbit MP) but we still prefer the 4000 (now called the 5000) for our PVX systems.

The biggest issue I would see for using a PVX system for more than a few users is the microphones. A Bluetooth headset is great for a single user, but for an entire classroom it would be a support nightmare, not to mention the barriers to communication that passing a headset would introduce. We have a hard enough time getting students to use push to talk microphones. I totally understand trying to implement such a system on a budget, but at some point you have to set some minimum standards or support will kill you.