Installed mics for full room coverage...

[mjrtoo]

I am constantly asked by clients to install mics into ceilings so that the room configuration does not matter.

I do see that Tandberg has the Audio Science microphone, has anyone tried this?

I try to talk them out of ceiling mics everytime, but sometimes you just don't have a choice, in these cases, what is the prefered method?

Thanks!

Matt

[trapehzoid]

the audioscience mic does well when used properly.

why don't you like ceiling mics?

[mjrtoo]

Too much room ambiance, what ceiling mics to you use?

[trapehzoid]

with good gain control and EC they work well.

I've used rooms with audioscience mics and rooms with shure systems with automixers.

Personally I find audio ediquite a better problem then crappy mic pickup or echo problems. Plus, ceiling mic installs are easier then table top installs. Drop ceilings are 10x easier then dealing with floors or furniture

[mjrtoo]

So are you talking Shure PZM stuff, or more like the MX202 hanging from the ceiling?

[vtjoe]

We use all types of ceiling mics in our setups in rooms that fit 8 people to rooms that fit 100 people. Altogether, we use 4 different styles of ceiling microphones. Now, I only allow the Tandberg Audioscience mic in our rooms.



The Tandberg Audioscience microphone is the best ceiling microphone out there for videoconferencing (especially for the price). For rooms without speech reinforcement, avoid using external echo cancellers and just use the echo canceller built in the Tandberg codec and the audioscience mic.



Also, read the documentation on where to install the microphone. I have seen these put in backwards and at the rear of the room, and for some reason they don’t work as well.



The only draw back on this microphone is its size and that it hangs down. This is typically a problem in rooms with front screen projectors. I've also been amazed on how the 2'x4' size also blends into a ceiling so that no one notices it.



By putting in one audioscience mic in a 25 foot x 25 foot room (and maybe one tabletop for a lecturer if it is a classroom setting), you end up simplifying the equation related to echo cancellation, and the audio improves drastically to the other side. The Tandberg Noise Reduction for removing constant ambient noise in combination with built in AGC does wonders. Also, by removing the microphone from the table you also remove tapping and shuffling.



Buy, try it. You'll love it.

[mjrtoo]

Thanks for the info, do you think installing the audio science mic with a lecturn microphone will be good for the 25x25 room you speak of?

The lecturn mic will have to be reinforced locally....

[Gary Miyakawa]

There are a few questions that I don't believe have been asked.. Like, what are the walls made of ? Will those surfaces reflect audio ? Are the floors carpet ? Is it a drop ceiling ?

All of these will effect whatever microphones are used. The best is a non-reflective surface on two adjacent walls with the floor being carpet. (this absorbs the maximum reflective audio)...

I was approached to ceiling mount microphones in a room that is 25' long and 18' wide with glass on two walls, glass table and hardwood floors... I told them, that with those conditions, audio would never be good... They contracted someone else who mounted ceiling microphones with a Vortex (correctly programmed)... They have NEVER been able to get the audio stable in the room (because of all the reflection/reverb)... At least they called me to tell me I was right....

Good luck ! With the right surfaces, should work well !

Gary Miyakawa

[mjrtoo]

Yes, it is a good room. Two walls with 2" acoustical panels, fabric covered, carpeted floor, and an acoustical tile ceiling.

It's a very nice room acoustically. I come from the pro audio world, close mic or no mic kind of attitude so going to ceiling mounted microphones seems 'second best'.

I have a ceiling space issue in the rooms though, we have a ceiling mounted projector, between two plasma's just in front of the first row of seats. Which just happens to be the place where the Audio Science mic(s) should go. Any issues with placing the mics on the edge of the seating area pointing towards the mid section of the back wall?

The seating in the room is auditorium style with move-able chairs, and a flat floor. The distance from the first row of seats to the back wall is about 20', that leaves about 5' for a presentation area across the width of the room. I will have a fixed podium mic, as well as a wireless lav for the doctor/presenter. And of course using the AudioScience mic for the audience...

I really do appreciate the advice.

[emello]

We were having problems with a similar room and ceiling mics. What we ended up with is using the Clock Audio C801E mini shotgun mics mounted around the room and aimed where we needed the pick up. They go into an Aspi Vortex, which automixes them in with the lavalier at the lectern.

As our previous mics were picking up mostly the HVAC, this is a vast improvement from before.

Here's the link to the Clocks

http://www.microphones-audio.com/brochure/acatalog/C801-C801E.html

[AVGeek]

We've used the Tandberg mic a few times and if installed properly it has a great pick-up pattern. Never used it in a room that needed sound-reinforcement so might want to check with the higher-level tech support guys at tandberg to see what that would do to EC etc. Once in a while in accoustically sound rooms with low ceilings and lots of mics we've gotten good sound from ceiling mics. Beyerdynamic makes some cool 3" white mini-goosenecks that can be ceiling mounted and we've even had some luck with the omni and cardioid audio-technica button mics ceiling mounted. A good guide that you can give clients when they ask why this and why that is http://www.shure.com/booklets/distancelearn.html

[carolyn]

We went through a horrible ordeal last year with various mic systems for 2 of our rooms..one Lecture hall (50-100) and a large conf room(25x40?). Our problem, for the most part ended being the integrator we contracted..the lecture hall is mainly used for presentations and seminars...locally and videoconferenced. iwe he needed spech reinforcement for the audience mics on a simple level just so the far site could hear a question clear enough without the local having to get up and walk over to a mic/stand or pass around a wireless handheld ..this was for vc meetings only. Otherwise, it was not needed. the room had a terrible ac system..old. The second room was a mult media set up 55" video display and lcd hung for the graphic. thisd room used for all activities from meetings to baby showers. we never knew what to expect when we would go to set the room for a vc. The ceiling was too high for mics. The integrator we had was too inexpierenced for these two divers type rooms and the sales rep tried to be an engineer. we had 6 shure mics, two lavs anfd one podium mic and clear one xap 800 for the lecture hall. The audio was so bad. feedback, drop outs...they put a secon xap and gain controls at the podium..the audience mics were either too sensitive and we could not mute them (no control interface at this time). They were only supposed work in vc..they ended being live all the time and other times you would walk in the room was in a loop throug hthe vcr...their experience (lack of)...almost cost me my job. in the large room, they wanted to route a big gang box with 6 table top mics that woudl have to be set up and stowed for each meeting..(room config may change dependant on event). We looked other alternatives..he gave us 6 wireless hh on desk stands. Swore this was the right set up..much to my ??? That set lasted two days. finally after a million change notices, we secured the room set up permantly and wired the tables withthe mics....another month later they finally got those mixed right. The Lecture Hall..the 6 ceiling mics, 2 lavs and wireless hh ...work perfectly today..not because of the integrator,,,that integrator..we got another one to come in and clean it up...it came down to properly setting the clear one xaps...

Make sure if you use an external mixer...you test out the room in every situation you can think of..full, empty, vc, multipnt, etc....good luck

[USAFVTCGUY]

Carolyn,

We have had several issues much like yours. I think it a matter of good planning right from the start and an intergrator that knows what they are talking about. Good audio is the hardest thing to plan for but its also the most important. In the Gov, we always seem stuck with the local companies that never really have the right "training" to understand good local and VC intergration, especially if you have to be concerned with any security issues.

[haneyr]

You may want to look at the FullSound system from CTG Audio. It works great for our conference rooms.

[misha3317]

Once you graduate into celing mics you should use 3rd party mixers, such as ClearOne. You can eliminate room noise and other audio issues by cutting frequencies with such products much easier. Tandberg does not have any built in tools for that.

[PWebb]

Thanks for the info, do you think installing the audio science mic with a lecturn microphone will be good for the 25x25 room you speak of?

The lecturn mic will have to be reinforced locally....

The Tandberg mic range is a 14' radius from the microphone center. Pickup range does not extend forward past the plexiglass shield.