IP versus ISDN

[pbraatelien]

I did not want to let this one lie dormant, seeing as George is putting so much work into this.
I have been in video since '91 (which seems like the stoneage now)
and have seen the video network slowly evolve (too slow for my take) from ISDN and dedicated T-1 networks to moving to IP (whether it be the internet or a private network).
I have done demos on the internet which failed miserably (about three years ago) and have done demos recently that went flawlessly (recently).
I know from talking to Polycom and Tandberg, that the majority of their systems sold are still ISDN based. I find this disappointing but I understand the concerns people have about new technology (IP is really not new--but running video over it is-sort of).
What baffles me is that their is only one commercial network available (Glowpoint) that has all the necessary components to give customers an IP solution (outside of using their private network-and just talk to a few IP managers and ask them if they mind running video over their network).
I would hope I would get flamed on this since their are a couple of other IP offerings (intellinet, Savvis, Masergy) but everytime I talk to customers on whether they do what they say they do, the answer comes up negative... or they do it in some convoluted way

Any responses?

[signalgrunt]

Well I have a few questions for you. Two of the two biggest vendors out there, Tandberg and Polycom are still selling more ISDN stiff than IP stuff, don't you think that they know what they're doing? I notice you said a couple of times that glowpoint is undesubscribed. Do you think maybe there is a reason for that? Maybe because people know that IP isn't really ready for every day use and don't want to set thheir multimillion dollar equipment set to depend on an experiment like glowpoint.

They are the only ones now because everyone else knows better. My prediction is that they'll burst like the dot coms within 2 years.

Not a flame. Just another insight.

[pbraatelien]

Signalgrunt,
All good points. I have found that many customers resist IP video because of the same thought process.

With that said however, look at what Polycom and Tandberg are doing in the partnering and development side. Tandberg has partnered with Cisco to run the 1000 over skinny protocal,and they just announced a partnership with Glowpoint to take over their old Nuvision/Network Systems division and migrate these people to IP. Polycom is pushing web applications as hard as they can and they are hiring ex-Cisco people ALL over the country. They know that IP is the future.

If you take a look at any developement by any manufacturer of codecs/mcu's/Gateways you will find that most if not all their R&D is going to IP applications, not ISDN. In fact they are typically lowering prices on their IP only equipment because they know that ISDN is an incremental cost to the user that they may not want/need.
EX: Polycom changed the naming of their base viewstation product from the 512 to the H323 with the Quadbri/v.35/etc, etc add-on.

Glowpoint (and video over IP) is not an experiment. They have over 700 subscribers. Now admittedly in the larger picture that is a small base compared to the ISDN community, but the benifits over ISDN are tremendous. And while it has taken longer than expected to get mindshare from the video community, I have absolutely no customers that tell me they are NOT thinking of moving to IP.

I am getting a little long winded now, but you only have to take a demo of Glowpoint, talk to a couple of users about cost benefit (the carriers are still gouging the ISDN community-in long distance), reliability, new applications ( security, streaming, live video operator, call forwarding) to realize that there tremendous advantages to an IP service.

And remember signalgrunt, with an IP service, the carrier will know when your your line drops (unlike telco based ISDN) and will probably have it resolved before you know it is broken.

Do I sound like a zealot yet?

[Gary Miyakawa]

There certainly are other IP Video centric network providers. IVCI's Intellinet (http://www.ivci.com/intellinet_index.html) is one that provides a lot of services and capabilities.

There are many things to consider with these "vertical" networks.

Transport medium (T-1, DSL, etc)
Gateways
Bridging (MCUs)
Manageability of the Clients
etc.

Make your checklist of what you must have, and compare.

Competition is good!

Gary Miyakawa

[mguerrero]

Greetings to all,

Can I do a little marketing. On of our best referral partners at Masergy Communications is named InConference. They recommended this site to me. It's a very nice site. There's not a lot of flaming and it seems populate by knowledgeable people.

InConference has been demo'ing Masergy for over 2 years now, and ther'll be the first to tell you that the QoS is second to none. InConference is at: http://www.inconference.net/services/video...rks/masergy.php (http://www.inconference.net/services/video_networks/masergy.php)

You guys should check Masergy out. We have a number of great partnerships: http://www.masergy.com/internet/aboutus/html/alliances.jsp

We're on a nice roll because, as MPLS becomes the new transition technology, a lot of people are discovering that not all MPLS is created equal. What differentiates Masergy from the others is that we're a converged service, offering native IP services on the same pipe with QoS for each individual application. It's a Layer 3 offering so we're devoid of ATMs and thus, the cell tax as well.

We offer 5 service planes, 2 of which, VoIP and Video, we offer a 100% in-sequence packet delivery guarantee. It's in writing, it's enforceable, it works- it's just like watching TV.

I'll cut this short, but I appreciate the opportunity to post. We've been getting a lot more press lately as PolyCom has chosen Masergy to be their Global Network for Data, VoIP and Video. This is incredible news.

mguerrero@masergy.com

[tjulian]

pbraatelein, you are right about the industry evolution to IP instead of ISDN, but within the DOD, the only IP connectivity most sites have is to endpoint on the same CAN/VLAN/whatever. That is a serious issue we face with IP systems right now. I know there are solutions for that (H.320 Gateway anyone?), but no single organization wants to pay for that ability. So at this point, our networks are H.323 free...(most of the time :)). Our network is so slow right now, we're better off using 56k dialup to access anything outside the CAN anyways...:(

[mleshyk]

All,

There is a company based in Toronto Canada called BCS Global Networks that provides a full compliment of IP services similar to Glowpoint. BCS Global offers their service in Canada, the USA and overseas locations. See www.bcsglobal.com

Regards,

Mike Leshyk
Entermark Distribution
Toronto, Canada

[Gannan]

I work for the Missouri Telehealth Network.

www.telehealth.muhealth.org

We have close to 70 sites running IP video over frame relay T1 lines. it works very well. We have QOS implemented and that also helps improve the quality. 4 years ago we were completely ISDN and Direct T1 and a total of 12 sites. I have to say, it seems a whole lot easier to work with 70 IP sites that 12 ISDN sites. One more point to consider is as an administrator, you don't have to worry about people not hanging up their call after their conference is over. We had an ISDN bill one time at a site for 44,000.00 dollars because someone forgot to hang up after their conference on Friday and it went all weekend. With IP, they can stay connected forever if they want.

The administration and troubleshooting of the equipment is also much easier. I have servers monitoring everything on my network. If any weird hapends, it pages me with detailed info of what's going on.

Last but not least, the video and audio quality if very good. We deal with health care. Docs see patients over video. Trust me, if the video and audio was even a little off, the Docs would not tolerate it and we would have moved back to ISDN in a flash. But as I said before, the IP video is great.

Just my opinion.