Projectors in the classroom

[brobbins]

I am trying to investigate using projectors in our distance learning labs rather than the TV monitors that we currently have. The problem is, when I look at the specs I have no reference point to go by (knowing nothing of projectors). So, if I look at the lumens I don't know what is bright enough for a lighted classroom, etc.
I can figure out how large the area projected from a given distance is, and that kind of "room specific" parameter. What I need to know is minimum resolution, brightness, and possibly the more robust brands to look at for a classroom environment.

Another angle may be cost of maintenance. We have a $10k HD projector in our student center for "movie night" and other activities, and I just found out they go through about 2 $300 bulbs per year. That times the 13 or so rooms I intend to convert gets a little pricey.

BTW, these rooms will prob be going to the Vtel Vista codecs, so compatability with that is a must.

Thanks

[jrshaw]

I'd be interested to know what you find out. I don't have experience using projectors on our side, but as an IVC content provider, I have had to deal with them on the receiving end. It's pretty frustrating trying to hold a discussion with a group of students that you can't see! The most important thing is the point you mentioned, "bright enough for a lighted classroom."

[emello]

We have a number of projectors in our rooms, both for just A/V and distance. It depends on the size of the room, the size of the screen and the distance you need to throw the image, what type of images you'll be projecting (ie, doc cam or PC PowerPoints, etc.) as well as lighting considerations.

For our classrooms we have a mix of projectors, depending when we were purchasing. We're currently purchasing NEC GT6000's for our recent rebuilds and new installs. Any of the projector manufacturers have good estimators for what projectors to get. NEC's link is http://www.nectechmedia.com/throw/throw.htm

Lamps are expensive - for a comparison, I was just thinking $600 a year, that's cheap! ;) But something that might help you in dual lamp projectors is changing the mode to conserve the lamp life. It does cut down on the lumens, but in a situation where you're doing movie projection as you mention, it is possible that the room is dark enough that you could use the eco mode which would save you on lamp replacements and still be good for viewing.

I'm sure someone else will come in with some ideas as well.

[brobbins]

Thanks emello. I know this is a hard one to answer with general specs. I'm still in the early stages of checking things out, so I may learn what questions to ask as I go. Maybe I can get a demo sometime of some models too.

What I'm looking to do is use this for monitors, so I'll be showing far-end video, powerpoint, VCR/DVD, etc... That's why I believe it will be necessary to be seen in a lighted room. Y'all have a great weekend and I'll see ya back here on Monday.

Thanks,
Brad

[carolyn]

I think this a great thread as the projector is often the "red headed stepchild" when talking about integrating into this type of technology from a monitor users perspective.

There are just so many makers of the thing that trying to compare and narrow down what you need can seem overhwelming. We have a slew of different projectors we use throughout our organization (hospital and several clinics). I have seen them from the low to high range in price and quality. Surprisingly...even the cheapies throw out good ligh in the "not so good for video" rooms. All of projectors are used/installed in rooms that are either used strictly by our training staff (training rooms) or in "open to the public" conference rooms, auditoriums, mobile carts and videoconferenicng/multimedia rooms. And yes, the cost to replace those "stupid little bulbs" can get quite expensice (we're parying an average 450-500 per bulb for the p[rojectors we have).

So...when looking into outfitting rooms with projectors there are a few things to consider besides the obvious..(what you want to display on them and the lighting) I say lighting is obvious because now a days the projectors lumen on a typical low to mid range unit is good...2000 lumen I'd say is a good starting point.....but think more in terms of:

1. Room size....for the screen size you want...in lecture hall type rooms...should be 100-120 in. diagonal...to 10x20 ft room where a 50in. diagonal is good.....BUT consider with this,,,,where is the projector going to live? in the ceiling, on a cart?...mounting a projector is the best but you need to look at the ceiling...lighting grids, hvac and sprinkler systems also live there and can effect the placement of you projector, hence the screen size and viewing oppotunities for the audience. Mounting projectors also requires installation and cabling..

2..Thus..decisions as to what is going to the projector..pc, video...(important...with video...if you are going to display a vc system's image, and you also want to use it to display vcr images...is the vcr already incorporated into the vc unit as a peripheral or is it local to the room..not connected to the vc system)....this goes into deciding how many inputs the projector can handle..you may need to move into incorporating a switcher to help meet your needs.

3. Now, you've got the projector in the ceiling, the monitors are gone...oooops ...the monitor had built in audio....what do you do now? Please, whatever you do...DO NOT rely on the projector to provide you with the audio for your room...no m,atter what kind of speaker it claims to have built into it.

4. Now that you have to find an alternative for your audio system......don't forget about relocating the vc codec , vcr and whatever else you had stuffed into the cart withthe monitor on it. (I know I may be getting away from the projector decision on this one but it is like the dominoe effect when you are integrating your room to the next level....I know this first hand as I went thorugh it 2 yrs. ago...from carts to projectors and plasmas)

5. Not to stray further from the projectors but another thought to keep in the back of your mind through this whole process is....while monitors provided the basic satisfaction of a typical user's need...especially as a first step into this technoogy...they become quite boring and more of an eye sore and "space taker" as users become more in tune and savvy with the technollogy in their environment. Thus, cleaning up the "boat anchors" and presenting them with a room that seemingly now more spacious and represents more of what a conference room, claasroom, conference should look like and feel like.....also gives everyone a fresh new approach to using and accepting the technology. However, it doesn't come without its own faults...in addition to the basics above, and how monitors were so easy to use...when someone changed the channel or turned it off and forgot....the fixes were easy. With projectors ....people messing with the remotes to change inputs (video to graphics, etc..) can lead to other programming changes from the vcr that can really mess your day up if you have a person with an itchy finger and curous mind. Why just the simple task of powering it up and turning it off is sometimes distracting and seen as timeconsuming by some because the powering of these units is not instantaneous like the typical monitor was. What I am getting at, and will cost some additional $$ down the road should you see an avenue for it and that is getting some sort of simple room control system. A standardized touch panel (assuming all rooms will have similiar or the same set ups) that does all the work for you with the touch of a button and prevents those with curiosity from getting into trouble, while eliminating the million remotes that have piled up on the table .....as well as opening up the oppotunity for you to have centralized room control, management, and administrative rights over the equipment in these rooms...all accessible from your pc.

6. With all that in mind, when you are loooking to move into the step of room automation..remeber that this simple step to integrating projection technoogy is actually more than just simple. Projectors need care...the best way to imrpove the bulb life and maintain its display quality is to magae them....What I mean is...you must be diligent on making sure they are not left on (this is my biggest issue right now with all of ours....and a big reason for our enterprise migration into the room control system I touched on above). The bulbs will last longer if you clean the projectors on a routine basis. yes, they need to be cleaned...a dirty little secret no one tells you...about the filters....they get clogged and it makes the projector work harder.....some of your better projectors will tell you this...how? they simply begin to shut off automatically after 5-10 minutes....leaving you up in arms because you don't know why...its not the bulb because that indicator did not light up, nor is ther a message on the projected display when you first power it up......I learned that first hand. Cleaned the little filter that slides out of it..and wallah....good as new.

7. The last remark I am going to make here on projectors for you....like its not enough already....is to look at a model side by side from the three levels...low end, medium and high(they have these projectors out now that do split screen crap and all...don't get caught in the hype)...I have found that the mid range units work great. The lower end seem to burn out faster in terms of just being cheap......they work harder I guess. Our midrange units are the Proxima and Chrities ...personally, I like the Christies...They have performed solid and seem to last the longest if maintained and in bulb life. Proximas too...They are 3000 lumen units..we use in Lecture Halls and training rooms with lights on and off. I also believe size matters here...as far as my own experience...our smaller units (Toshiba, proxima, Infocus),,,seem to have some burn out...meaning nomatter what the lifeon the bulb is...they have dimmed with age (2 yrs)....

I have some links that you may find helpful to read that will help in your design of these rooms ..i can post them here shortly.

Well, that's all for now...hope my "soap box" writing helps

[brobbins]

excellent info. I'm already getting an idea what to look for in our rooms. Thanks for all the help so far, and any other comments will be appreciated!!!

[tom9933]

First off let me say that Carolyn is right on the money with her suggestions :)
We are currently using a ceiling mounted 4500 lumen machine as our standard classroom projector (street price around 5k with mount and extra bulb). We use this unit in all rooms (standard and VC) that are under a 100 seats or so. Typical screen size is 8’ x 8’ (for overheads) and the video image is 8’ x 6’. In larger rooms the screen is much larger and consequently the projector is brighter. BTW don’t forget to also look at the contrast ratio, for video you will definitely notice the difference.
On the bulb side our machines use a single bulb that is good for 2000 hours and I believe the cost is around $400. One feature to look for in a projector is signal detection. Our units call this power saving and basically it shuts the machine off if no signal is detected for 5 minutes.
For control we standardized on the Extron System 5IP switchers. They offer network based projector control, source selection and audio control. We use the amplifier in the system switcher with ceiling speakers and in normal rooms this is a very adequate solution. The networkability of this unit is very nice not only for remote controlling the room but also because it sends you emails for bulb replacement, overheating (clogged filters) and disconnection (theft monitoring).
As a side note you will also find that most companies are rebranding another companies projector. Also if you get the chance a trip to InfoComm would be a good educational investment.

[ITV-U]

We currently have a mix of ceiling mounted front projection and rear mounted mirror projection systems. Until recently, our main VTC rooms were holding around or under 10 hours of classes per day. Now we are pushing 14 hours of VTC classes in some rooms per day. In less than 1 year, our new projectors developed a yellow spot in the middle of them. We have noticed it more in the higher lumen projectors we use, such as 3200 and greater, than in our lower lumen, 2000-2500, projectors. In speaking with the design engineer at the projector manufacuturer, I found out that LCD type projectors are pro-rated at 2080 hrs per year and tend to have this issue when used more than 8 hours a day. The yellow spot is from the liquid in the LCD reacting to the UV emitted by the bulb(thus, higher the lumen, higher the UV) and hardening in the blue screen, creating a blank spot in blue allowing the red and green to mix, thus yellow spot. I was told that a 1 chip DLP would not be a good solution for us because of excessive motion in some classes that use multimedia presentations with frame rates higher than 20 fps, would create very poor quality. Also, there is a small percentage of the poplulation that can detect the flicker rate of color wheel spinning. This leaves only a theatre-quality projector which costs greater than $20,000 per room. Because of the size of the rooms, we are considering 61" Plasmas for around $8,900. This has been recommended by the projector manufacturer and the codec manufacturer. At under half the cost of the projector, I have a screen that will last 7+ years and will not have a spot on my annual budget for bulbs.

Find the projector you are interested in and contact the company's tech support or call the main number and ask for R & D to review the use with them. Our projector company sold an high-use warranty that covered certain items if we exceeded the limit in a year. If nothing else, quotes from several intergrators are generally free and a good to find what brands they are recommending/installing.

[Redder]

Carolyn thanks for your input. ON Feb 27th, I have our CEO doing a company wide presentation. I will be using projectors and screens for local employees to view the presentation. This room will be about 900 SQ feet, should be interesting. In addition, video output to our offices using our Tandberg 6000 equipment along with using recording devices for remote offices and those not able to see the presentation live.
On Feb 28th or March 1st, I will let everyone know what we used and how it went.
I hope this will provide info for others and GET input from others what I could do for equipment to improve for our next presentation.

[airwired]

These are all interesting comments! My offering is to suggest using the plasma displays instead of projectors. Why? If you are replacing TV's then you probably don't need the increased landscape of a projections screen. We are using 50" plasma displays and they work great in a small to moderate size room. One big factor is picture quality. The larger you make the picture, the grainer it becomes. If your attendees are sitting up close to the screen, a plasma display will appear much better. A decent plasma display (not necessarily the most expensive) will look great even in a bright room. Cost is pretty close to a good projector without the recurring bulb replacement cost. Also look at displays that offer built in recording capabilities if you want to record conferences at the endpoints.

[Redder]

We use Plasmas for permanent installs within our company. We also do large group quarterly meeting that do not need permanent setups. So portability is a necessity.

[airwired]

We have a 50" plasma mounted inside of a wheeled cart that has an elevating mechanism. It lives nicely against a wall when not in use. I think You can go larger if You need to.

[Redder]

Our meeting went without a hitch. We video conference in 16 of our corporate sites we had Tandberg’s and Polycom video units we used our Tandberg MCU to perform the connectivity, we used (3) 8790 projectors and (3) AV folding screens each 8 X 12. We used a Peavey mixer to get the remote sites audio over the speaker system for the question and answer time, and (2) wireless handhelds plus a Lapel mic unit. We recorded the meeting using a Canon XL1 we tied it into the Tandberg doc cam and remote sites were quite pleased.
I am sure someone has done it differently and I would hope you could share some information. We will be doing these 4 times a year.

[Neil Griffin]

For those of you who have put plasmas in your conference rooms, how do you handle the 4:3 output the VC system. Do you leaver the bars or stretch?

[tom9933]

We use LCD and have the same problem. It depends on the end user typically we use the black bar or trimmed top and bottom method. However I do have one user (department head) who prefers the stretched look. The good news is that most codec manufactures are working to address this issue.

[airwired]

We use Tandberg 880 mxp's on 50 inch displays in 5:1 format and all configures well without any tweeking. The conferences have a crisp, natural appearance. Local PC usage can be shifted to 4:3 on the display.