Polycom MGC and People+Content

[Bull_81073]

Let me first say God damn vendors that make proprietary communications technology. :classic: That being said, we have a Polycom MGC+50 running 9.0.1.8. A while back one of the updates gave us the ability to select three levels of People+Content. (Graphics, Hi-Res Graphics, and Live Video) This all works fine with our fleet of Polycom endpoints. However, I cannot connect to anyone else if I have the P+C setting turned on. Period. This has happened with Tandberg, Lifesize and even another Polycom endpoint that was outside of our control. And the fix for all of them is just turn of the P+C and everything works great. Has anyone else ran into this, or do you have a suggestion to fix? We are trying to extend the reach of our distance learning project but this problem is really hurting students at this point!

[Sean Lessman]

Has anyone else ran into this, or do you have a suggestion to fix?

The MGC has about 5 different modes of 'dual streams' that it supports. I one point there was 3 different flavors of People+Content/Visual Concert. They also support the TANDBERG Duo Video (also pre-standard) on both IP and ISDN. The MGC also supports H.239 which is the standards compliant version of dual streams.

The trick to the MGC is you cannot have multiple types of dual streams active in the same call. If you turn on one mode of dual streams and an endpoint doesn't support it, you get adverse effects in the entire conference.

What you want to be the most compatible is H.239 which works with later Polycom units (VSX and later), all TANDBERG endpoints, most Sony endpoints, Aethra and so on. H.239 does not work on earlier Polycom endpoints (iPower, FX, EX, VS4000, Viewstation etc) as they never provided a software update for them.

So, if you have pre-H.239 units from Polycom, you cannot put them in the same conference as later systems that only support H.239.

Guess what, before you think you might upgrade to a Polycom RMX...it only supports H.239 and doesn't support any of the proprietary People+Content versions so it wont work at all with older Polycoms.

The only real fix would be H.239 support for those older units and I don't expect Polycom will be doing that. Or allowing the mixing of H.239 and P+C by the Accord, and that won't happened as its been 6 years now and they haven't addressed it yet.

Hope that brings you up to speed.

Sean

[Bull_81073]

So, if you have pre-H.239 units from Polycom, you cannot put them in the same conference as later systems that only support H.239.
Sean

Thanks for the info and let me elaborate a little here. We don't have pre 239 polycom endpoints they are all VSX 8000. Here is the kicker if you look at the picture, you see the different options that we have, and all our calls are continuous presence so that causes us to only be able to use the top three options that start "H.239 / P+C...". That is the mode that should be compatible with other standards based endpoints tandberg and other wise, right? These different flavors of h.239 appeared in a recent software upgrade and I wonder if that is the problem.

[Sean Lessman]

These different flavors of h.239 appeared in a recent software upgrade and I wonder if that is the problem.

Those look like the different H.239 profiles the Accord now supports where you can decide how to weigh the available bandwidth between the main and second stream. It should be H.239, either way and should work with any H.239 endpoint.

Sean

[Bull_81073]

Those look like the different H.239 profiles the Accord now supports where you can decide how to weigh the available bandwidth between the main and second stream. It should be H.239, either way and should work with any H.239 endpoint.



That's the real problem though, none of them allow non-polycom h.239 endpoints to connect. They connect breifly, the video/audio never displays to the conference and then they disconnect with a "H.323 Failure" result. Oh well, I guess its back to polycom with this one. I was really hoping that someone had run into this before and found a solution!

[JustBuck24]

Actually the MGC does transcode h.239 and people + content. If you disable h.239 on a VSX and do a Transcoded/CP call with a Tandberg product that supports h.239 and is enabled on the ep, you will be able to send content both ways. Just my tid bit.

[JustBuck24]

Ok...so you are doing a Polycom only call or are there Tandbergs in the call? Are you going across any firewalls? Is this all IP or is it mixed calls. What is the software version of your VSX 8000s?

[Sean Lessman]

Actually the MGC does transcode h.239 and people + content. If you disable h.239 on a VSX and do a Transcoded/CP call with a Tandberg product that supports h.239 and is enabled on the ep, you will be able to send content both ways. Just my tid bit.

Sorry, guess I should have pointed out there are 2 flavors of People+Content (three if you consider that PLCM marketing calls H.239 by People+Content too). There was the version supported by the iPower (Enterprise People+Content) and then a new version of P+C that was in the VSX.

According to the Accord ver 9 manual, if you have older and newer endpoints you have to set the conference to People+Content V0 mode and then set the endpoints to H.239/People+Content). In P+C V0 mode you can only do voice switching per the manual.

Dunno, it used to be you could only choose one way, they might have done something about it. But one thing is for sure, there are waaaay too many options to chose from. The box ought to figure it out for you.

Sean

[Bull_81073]

Ok...so you are doing a Polycom only call or are there Tandbergs in the call? Are you going across any firewalls? Is this all IP or is it mixed calls. What is the software version of your VSX 8000s?

Hey thanks for your interest and help! Our Polycom 8000s endpoints are running 8.5.2. And when they are the only endpoints in our CP calls any of the three options that are available work flawlessly. The problem comes in when I try to connect Tandberg or Lifesize endpoints with h.239 enabled on both the endpoint and in the conference. We are going across a firewall but our endpoints as well as all IPs for our bridge have a 1:1 static NAT with all ports open. And lastly these are all IP calls.

[JustBuck24]

What version software is your Tandberg running. This is weird. We have been doing Polycom and Tandberg calls for some time now without incedent.

If you do a point to point with the Tandberg and one of your VSX systems, does that show the same issue(s)?

[Bull_81073]

I don't know what version the tandbergs are running unfourtunatly. They aren't insude of my control scope. And as far as a point to point. Everything works great. Like you said, it's very wierd. I am calling our support on this issue today so I can do some more testing as well. There have been a couple of things that I have thought of recently that I want to try.

[jeffz]

Hi,
You should pick the H.239 - Graphics mode. The other two modes are there for Polycom endpoints that support the other modes.

BTW...the other modes support either greater resolution... or greater motion. Its nothing proprietary and any other vendor could support them.

Anyways...I don't think thats your issue. The H.239 - Graphics mode is standard h.239 at the standard 7.5fps.

If you're running into problems still, please call 1-800-POLYCOM and we'l help you figure out the problem (regardless if it is us or your non-Polycom endpoints)

Thanks!
Jeff Z
http://www.thevideomonkey.com

[Sean Lessman]

http://www.thevideomonkey.com

Jeff...seriously...would love to have a beer or two and correct a lot of what you are circulating. Or if you have questions about our products, drop me an email and I will be happy to answer your questions. Its better than making it up.

I'm writing to all of you TAA/Codian sales people and engineers and I want to get something off my chest. Both me and our collective customers are sick of hearing you walk into to opportunities and bad mouth Polycom and its products.

The irony is overwhelming.

Sean

[Joe Vallender]

We recently have been troubleshooting an issue of a Lifesize with H.239 turned on and being NAT'ed through a Cisco router. With H.239 turned on, the Lifesize is fragmenting the H.245 capabilities packet into two frames and this is breaking the subsequent NAT process in the Cisco router (known issue with Cisco). When this occurs the endpoint connects but no audio/video is received into our MCU and the audio/video IP addresses are the private instead of the NAT'ed public. Could this be related?

Also, if there is a PIX firewall involved, the H.323 FIXUP needs to be turned off because H.239 breaks it or it isn't handled properly.

[John Cusack]

We have tried all the settings........they connect fine but the graphics show up fuzzy on the other end. Today Tandberg has said it is a known issue and will be fixed in the next version of software.

Accord MGC 100 9.0.1 Brand new Tandbergs 3000's and 6000's

I talked the client into buying these (8 codecs) and adding the NPP option
:hurt:

[Sean Lessman]

Today Tandberg has said it is a known issue and will be fixed in the next version of software.

If you don't mind, can you send me a private message and tell me who at TANDBERG told you this?

I talked with the interop guys and as far as they know this works fine and they are not aware of the issue you are describing.

Thanks,

Sean

[John Cusack]

We've been working this over 3 tickets and 3 weeks.
TANDBERG TAC
Issue update

This is an automatic message



The ticket ISS00037421 has been Closed

I could really use some knowledgable help on this one...I am getting creamed royaly.

My desk phone is 703-933-5193
My cell is 703-930-8392 Any help is appreciated!

[Sean Lessman]

We've been working this over 3 tickets and 3 weeks.

I could really use some knowledgable help on this one...I am getting creamed royaly.

John, TAC has left you a message, please return the call as early as you can. I also asked around and we are still trying to understand who told you this would be resolved in the next software version. I want to make sure that #1 your problem is solved regardless of who's issue it is and #2 that we deliver the appropriate expectations. If you can help me with a name, that would be a good place to start. Please send me the name in a personal message or to my TANDBERG email at firstname.lastname@tandberg.com.

Sean

[John Cusack]

I spoke with my old bridge guy. H.239 is a subset of H.263. If you set your Accord for the "High Resolution Graphics" option and force the call to H.263 it works. It should work on Auto but doesn't. :nervous:

[kmuser_vtc]

Not sure this will help in your case, but we ran into similar issues with lifesize doing h.239 on mgc -100 (8.0.0.27) and RMX (2.0.2.25). We seen that lifesize endpts would experience pixeliation or black video when transmitting h.239. We resolved the issue by disabling annex in sys.cfg of MGC and RMX. By adding flags the following flags(MGC - People Plus Content Section - ENABLE_H239_ANNEX_T=NO & RMX - MCMS Section - H263_ANNEX_T=NO).. Once these changes were made, tested lifesize with no further issues. PLCM stated flag allows the non polycom endpoints H323cap exchange. :ermm:

[Flash]

That's the real problem though, none of them allow non-polycom h.239 endpoints to connect. They connect breifly, the video/audio never displays to the conference and then they disconnect with a "H.323 Failure" result. Oh well, I guess its back to polycom with this one. I was really hoping that someone had run into this before and found a solution!

most probably, bug in the version. try connecting to an MCU with lower version probably 8 Series which are much stable than the version 9.
Believe me..I have faced damn lots of issues on version 9.
THANK GOD!!! WE ARE NOT USING FOR VIDEO CALLS ON THE MCU WITH VERSION 9. Its only audio calls we use it for..